[From nobody Fri Dec 28 14:56:15 2012 Return-Path: <discuss-bounces@lists.funkfeuer.at> X-Spam-DCC: : X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on mailgate.uni-weimar.de X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.2 required=6.5 tests=BAYES_50,MIME_BASE64_NO_NAME autolearn=no version=3.1.1 Received: from epithymetikon.stura.uni-weimar.de (m18.uni-weimar.de [141.54.160.48]) by mailgate.uni-weimar.de (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k95L44JP019359; Thu, 5 Oct 2006 23:04:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mailgate.uni-weimar.de (tigger.scc.uni-weimar.de [141.54.1.3]) by epithymetikon.stura.uni-weimar.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94D5813EE6 for <kloschi@subsignal.org>; Thu, 5 Oct 2006 23:06:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mx2.uni-weimar.de (mx2.uni-weimar.de [141.54.1.18]) by mailgate.uni-weimar.de (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k95L3vl9019353; Thu, 5 Oct 2006 23:03:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from outpost.funkfeuer.at (outpost.funkfeuer.at [193.238.156.3]) by mx2.uni-weimar.de (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k95L3Y3w012387 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 5 Oct 2006 23:03:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: from outpost.funkfeuer.at (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by outpost.funkfeuer.at (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3sarge3) with ESMTP id k95L308Q020917; Thu, 5 Oct 2006 23:03:00 +0200 Received: from mxs2.mindpack.com (mxs2.mindpack.com [193.238.157.39]) by outpost.funkfeuer.at (8.13.4/8.13.4/Debian-3sarge3) with ESMTP id k95L2vSg020914 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for <discuss@lists.funkfeuer.at>; Thu, 5 Oct 2006 23:02:59 +0200 Received: from mxs2.mindpack.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mxs2.mindpack.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id 15290-03 for <discuss@lists.funkfeuer.at>; Thu, 5 Oct 2006 23:02:52 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 23:02:52 +0200 From: Teemu Schaabl <teemu@lynix.net> To: discuss@lists.funkfeuer.at Message-ID: <20061005210252.GC28398@fuckup.lynix.local> Mail-Followup-To: Teemu Schaabl <teemu@lynix.net>, discuss@lists.funkfeuer.at Mime-Version: 1.0 X-GREET: Hi, X-GPG-Key-ID: 0xEEF304E4 X-GPG-Key: http://teemu.lynix.net/teemu.asc X-GPG-Key-fingerprint: 48E3 33B3 05E9 9B5F 7AE4 FD75 07BC B6CC EEF3 04E4 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11 X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new using NAI at uni-weimar.de Subject: [Discuss] Fwd: Letter to OLPC X-BeenThere: discuss@lists.funkfeuer.at X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technische und praktische Diskussionen von/ueber/mit/fuer FunkFeuer <discuss.lists.funkfeuer.at> List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.funkfeuer.at/mailman/listinfo/discuss>, <mailto:discuss-request@lists.funkfeuer.at?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.funkfeuer.at/pipermail/discuss> List-Post: <mailto:discuss@lists.funkfeuer.at> List-Help: <mailto:discuss-request@lists.funkfeuer.at?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://lists.funkfeuer.at/mailman/listinfo/discuss>, <mailto:discuss-request@lists.funkfeuer.at?subject=subscribe> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0766015214==" Mime-version: 1.0 Sender: discuss-bounces@lists.funkfeuer.at Errors-To: discuss-bounces@lists.funkfeuer.at X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mailgate.uni-weimar.de [141.54.1.3]); Thu, 05 Oct 2006 23:04:04 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: IP, sender and recipient auto-whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-2.0.2 (mx2.uni-weimar.de [141.54.1.18]); Thu, 05 Oct 2006 23:03:55 +0200 (CEST) --===============0766015214== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="LwW0XdcUbUexiWVK" Content-Disposition: inline --LwW0XdcUbUexiWVK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable hi, da 0xFF ein - mbMn - sehr gesellschaftspolitisches Ding ist, erlaube ich mir das hier weiter zuleiten; die Intention ist eben nicht "Gratis Internet fuer die, die sich 500 euro (oder sO) leisten koennen", sondern ein hoeheres. Traurig zu sehen, welche Opfer manche bereit sind dafuer zu bringen, vote with your money, danke das Ihr mitmacht, lg teemu ----- Forwarded message from Theo de Raadt <deraadt@cvs.openbsd.org> ----- X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.0-rules_lynix.net_2004_11=20 (2005-09-13) on fuckup.lynix.local X-Spam-Status: No, hits=3D-2.3 required=3D4.0 tests=3DAWL,BAYES_00, DNS_FROM_RFC_ABUSE bayes=3D0.0000 autolearn=3Dno=20 version=3D3.1.0-rules_lynix.net_2004_11 Envelope-to: teemu@lynix.net Delivery-date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 19:54:19 +0200 To: misc@cvs.openbsd.org Subject: Letter to OLPC Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 11:50:54 -0600 =46rom: Theo de Raadt <deraadt@cvs.openbsd.org> X-Inode-Scanner: clean I have decided to make public this letter which I sent to the OLPC ("One Laptop Per Child" group, which is strongly associated with Red Hat. There have been replies to it by both Jim Gettys (argueing that their expediency is justified) and RMS (agreeing strongly with my point of view), but I will not disclose their letters. I am getting really tired of "open source" people who work against the open source community. Our little group can probably take credit for having "opened up" more wireless devices than the rest of the community, and therefore we feel we have a better grasp of the damage OLPC has done here. Our reverse engineering and documentation efforts will in time help all free software projects. Please take note, and publish if you wish. Thanks. --- To: Jonathan Gray <jsg@goblin.cx> cc: dcbw@redhat.com, jg@laptop.org, mtosatti@redhat.com cc: rms@gnu.org cc: deraadt Subject: Re: Marvell 88W8388 documentation=20 In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 14 Sep 2006 22:47:00 +1000." <20060914124700.GA21474@mail.netspace.net.au>=20 Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 12:38:34 -0600 =46rom: Theo de Raadt <deraadt@cvs.openbsd.org> > Please correct me if I am wrong but it seems that documentation > for Marvell's 88W8388's is not publically available without > signing an NDA? >=20 > If this is the case why did a project that seems to pride > itself of openess agree to deal with such a company? > Drivers written under NDA tend to be full of magic numbers, > near impossible for others to properly maintain and > totally against the spirit of open projects. >=20 > I really think you should push for Marvell to give out > documentation without them forcing NDAs onto people. > Failing that I'm sure there are other vendors > who would be willing to be more helpful. Jonathan showed me this mail he sent you about your NDA "cooperation" with Marvell for the wireless chip that you want to use for the OLPC project, so that Marvell will write you special hacks to do low-power mesh networking while the main cpu is powered off. This does not gaurantee Marvell is going to be open and release documentation for their chips though. When large players like you make such private agreements with such secretive vendors, you work against our common goals of getting more open documentation for devices. It is only with open documentation that OS groups can increase device support, and later -- keep the device drivers reliable after the device is EOL'd by the vendor. I've heard claims that you (OLPC members, Red Hat employees) think this relationship with Marvell will eventually prompt/teach them to be more open in time. Do you not realize how much of a DELUSION the history of free/open operating systems shows that point of view to be? Very few chip vendors have ever opened up unless they were pushed, let alone Marvell (who I am led to believe also has NDA's with Red Hat employees for the Marvell Yukon/Yukon 2 gigabit ethernet chips -- again one of the few closed chips). It is clear that your choices are not about opening up Marvell, but simply commercially expedient and hurtful to our common cause. You came to Marvell with potential sales of millions of units, and then completely wimped out in demanding ideals that you say you share with the community. Now other companies like Intel, Broadcom, and TI can say to us "Why should we open up, Marvell did not have to". So I must say I am extremely dissapointed you have chosen to work against the very obvious goals of "open", and I hope that in time you are made to feel ashamed of the choice you have made. ----- End forwarded message ----- --=20 Don't be too proud of the technological terror you have constructed -- D. Vader --LwW0XdcUbUexiWVK Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.1 (OpenBSD) iD8DBQFFJXL8B7y2zO7zBOQRAivlAJ9WMIWdTPsyYqDwR21XnrW/g4OHiwCaAos3 vhniRuxVf5nWpPb73BPe26Y= =SAch -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --LwW0XdcUbUexiWVK-- --===============0766015214== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KRGlzY3VzcyBt YWlsaW5nIGxpc3QKRGlzY3Vzc0BsaXN0cy5mdW5rZmV1ZXIuYXQKaHR0cHM6Ly9saXN0cy5mdW5r ZmV1ZXIuYXQvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9kaXNjdXNzCg== --===============0766015214==-- ]